2009/10 Season bat testing procedures.

[Chopfloat]

:rulebook:Hi Alex,I hope you and Val are well.
Alex as the new season looms,could you tells us the procedures and ramifications of bat-testing and failure of said testing.As this season I wish to conform to all the rules and regulations.
Thanking you in anticipation.
The bat that failed at Thornbury.
:dance3::dance3:

[Annie]

The bat that failed at Thornbury.
:dance3::dance3:

Choppy! You didn't fail? :no:

[Chopfloat]

Ah Annie,some would say most of my life has been a failure,but only half of those failings have been when I faltered before I leapt.
:joker::joker::joker:

[Annie]

Ah Annie,some would say most of my life has been a failure,but only half of those failings have been when I faltered before I leapt.
:joker::joker::joker:

Chop I doubt that anyone can honestly say that they have been a complete sucess. Certainly not in my Mothers eyes! :resent:

[Chopfloat]

Hi Alex,I'm raising this question again,as I've been told that the regulation for bat testing at the National Cadet & Junior Championships has been deleted.Can you confirm this?
I'm led to believe that a new machine for detecting V.O.C.'s has been ratified by the ITTF,but as yet the ETTA doesn't have one.Is this true?
Many thanks,Chopfloat.:pingbat::rulebook:

[Alex]

Hi Chopfloat.
I have taken copies of both your questions on testing and sending them to Peter Bradley, who I am sure you know. He is on the ITTF Equipment Committee and has all the up to date info.
He is away for a few days but you will get a response.
Regards
Alex

[Chopfloat]

Okay Alex,thanks muchly.:rocker:

[Chopfloat]

Once again bats failed the thickness test at the VETTS Midland Masters.
Two people that I know of took their bats to be tested on the Saturday.This was a voluntary test day.The rubbers were brand new,one bat had just been made up at the Teessport stand, and both bats failed on thickness.Surely something has to be said to the manufacturers regarding this issue?
When you are spending £30-£40 on new rubber(completely in good faith),then you should expect that the rubber will conform to the regulation specifications.
Or can the firms just put some kind of health warning on the packet!
'If you apply additional adhesive to this rubber it will not conform to ITTF regulations.'
I do feel with the cost of TT equipment nowadays,we, as consumers, should be covered in some way.
:redcard::redcard:

[BigBottler]

This has been the subject of much debate among many people recently. Am I right in saying that the failures in question are all due to exceeding maximum thickness?

I had several rubbers tested voluntarily after the Midlands Masters event and several failed on thickness, some by about 0.2mm. Other rubbers - same brand from the same manufacturers passed easily. All had been applied with the same type of glue using the same method.

I hope you will take my work that I do not seek to gain an unfair advantage by modfying or adapting the rubber in anyway.

If you assume that this is true and that the excessive thickness does not arise from bizarre gluing techniques, then it is quite possible that I could buy any number of rubbers and have them all confiscated at the next tournament.

I don't know any really wealthy TT players, and I am certainly not one of them. I simply can't afford to buy a rubber in the hope that it might be OK.

My own view is that all rubbers should be tested at all regional or national tournaments but that no bat is disqualified due to thickness unless it exceeds the thickness limit by a large pre-agreed margin say 0.5mm for example and there is evidence of modification.

All data from this exercise should be captured, collated internationally and fed back to the manufacturers to enable them to improve their quality controls.

In the meantime the ITTF need to solve the problem at source. It seems pointless for the ITTF to approve top sheets only. Perhaps it should approve products that are retailed i.e pimples with sponge or pimple without sponge. Once implemented, failures could result in manufacturers being fined or banned rather than players being disqualified. If necessary the specification of a product could include a mandatory self adhesive layer that removes the need to glue the blade. The thickness of this layer could be included in manufacturers tolerances.

Whether this or any other solution, it has to be fixed. We want to encourage people to play. Keep it affordable, keep it simple and keep it enjoyable.

[Annie]

Once again bats failed the thickness test at the VETTS Midland Masters.
Two people that I know of took their bats to be tested on the Saturday.This was a voluntary test day.The rubbers were brand new,one bat had just been made up at the Teessport stand, and both bats failed on thickness.Surely something has to be said to the manufacturers regarding this issue?
When you are spending £30-£40 on new rubber(completely in good faith),then you should expect that the rubber will conform to the regulation specifications.
Or can the firms just put some kind of health warning on the packet!
'If you apply additional adhesive to this rubber it will not conform to ITTF regulations.'
I do feel with the cost of TT equipment nowadays,we, as consumers, should be covered in some way.
:redcard::redcard:


There must be a rational explanation for this Chopfloat? It must have been an oversight surely? I hope there will be clarification on this? As you say at least a label clearly marked up specifying that it does not comply to the current standards?

[BigBottler]

Hi Annie,

Some of the rubbers that failed for me retail in the new vacuum packaging. The package states that the product is less than or equal to 3.95mm thick. i.e as long as you apply a layer of glue that is 0.05mm or less thick, then the manufacturer is saying that it will be compliant.

I believe that it is difficult to apply a layer of glue that is less than 0.1mm, so that could pose a problem if the particular rubber is at the top end of the manufacturers tolerance, but it shouldn't fail by more that about 0.05mm. Many rubbers are failing by much more than that.

Sadly therefore, labelling on its own is not the solution.

[Annie]

Hi Annie,

Some of the rubbers that failed for me retail in the new vacuum packaging. The package states that the product is less than or equal to 3.95mm thick. i.e as long as you apply a layer of glue that is 0.05mm or less thick, then the manufacturer is saying that it will be compliant.

I believe that it is difficult to apply a layer of glue that is less than 0.1mm, so that could pose a problem if the particular rubber is at the top end of the manufacturers tolerance, but it shouldn't fail by more that about 0.05mm. Many rubbers are failing by much more than that.

Sadly therefore, labelling on its own is not the solution.


Thank you for that BigBottler. I still can't believe it happened at this weekends tournament though!

O and a very big welcome to the site. I see you are already among friends and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before you have many more. :happy:

[BigBottler]

Thank you for that BigBottler. I still can't believe it happened at this weekends tournament though!

O and a very big welcome to the site. I see you are already among friends and I'm sure it's only a matter of time before you have many more. :happy:

Hi Annie,

Thanks. Yep many friends already, but always looking for more.

[Annie]

Hi Annie,

Thanks. Yep many friends already, but always looking for more.

Well you can count me in! http://www.tabletennistalk.co.uk/forum/images/icons/wave.gif

If you need any help getting around the site then please just let me know.

[Jim The Greek]

Well to my suprise i was called up to get my bat tested before i played the final in the over 40's plate, it passed, than 10 min later i was called to play i could have easily changed bat umpire never asked anything.So i think the job is getting half done.What they should do in tournaments i think pick a few matches before they start at random and do the testing on the spot, and in semis and finals hand your bat in let them test them and the umpire brings the bats to the table.:coin:

[Annie]

Well to my suprise i was called up to get my bat tested before i played the final in the over 40's plate, it passed, than 10 min later i was called to play i could have easily changed bat umpire never asked anything.So i think the job is getting half done.What they should do in tournaments i think pick a few matches before they start at random and do the testing on the spot, and in semis and finals hand your bat in let them test them and the umpire brings the bats to the table.:coin:

Good shout Jim! http://www.tabletennistalk.co.uk/forum/images/icons/clap.gif If you are going to bring this in then do it properly.

By the way, are you sure you are old enough to be playing at the ?VETTS? :resent: You looked very young and dapper.

[Jim The Greek]

Love you baby but 53 on the 14 of this month. You just made my night xxxxx

[Linda]

:charlston:Happy Birthday for the 14th. Nice to meet you too xx

[Annie]

Love you baby but 53 on the 14 of this month. You just made my night xxxxx

:faint: You gotta be kidding! :faint:

[Jim The Greek]

thanks linda, hope next time we get to talk more im sure will have a great laugh after a few drinks. xox

[Alex]

Hi,
Just to advise you that Peter Bradley who was involved with the Raquet Testing at the VETTS this weekend reports his overall findings to the ITTF Equipment Committee, of which he is a Member.
His report monitors any particular rubbers if they appear to cause a problem and he has sent a report last night to the Committee Chairman.
We will keep you posted on the outcomes.
It was good to meet Annie at the weekend and both Val and I had our Bats tested which passed as did this vast majority.
Regards
Alex

[HarryO]

Nice to see the Forum is used by the Chairman - many of these places seem to have little or no connection to the Administrators in the particular sport they are relative to. Thanks for the update Alex.