Reisman rubbers on Ebay

[Francis]

For those who are interested in Reisman rubbers, you can find prototypes of them on Ebay : items Nr 190289981128 (cloth-backed) and Nr 190255215911 (cloth-free). These prototypes are "authenticated" by Mark Johnson in the Yahoo hardbat discussion group :

"ATP prototyped a very small run of blue and lilac colored "leland Era" hardbat rubbers,ATP never marketed the rubbers these on e-bay are the surplus overproduced rubbers by the original toolmaker."

[Tinykin]

What is the reson for having a cloth backed rubber?

[Boneman]

What is the reson for having a cloth backed rubber?

An excellent question... I've pondered that as well and I'm thinking (mind you, not only is that dangerous but oft results in somewhat less than accurate conclusions) that it is to stabilize the sheet from stretching when the ball hits it. Thus preventing it from separating from the blade.

I do know that I play much better with sheets that have the linen backing than just rubber.

Would be great to hear what the real reason is for sure!

[Jay Turberville]

What is the reson for having a cloth backed rubber?

I believe the main reason is to provide stability when gluing the rubber to a blade. With the cloth backing, the rubber won't tend to shrink up as much when a VOC solvent based glue (rubber cement) is used. For some, the presence of a cloth back is an affirmative indication that this rubber was clearly made for use without sponge (OX) and is not merely a "topsheet."

[Jay Turberville]

For those who are interested in Reisman rubbers, you can find prototypes of them on Ebay : items Nr 190289981128 (cloth-backed) and Nr 190255215911 (cloth-free). These prototypes are "authenticated" by Mark Johnson in the Yahoo hardbat discussion group :

"ATP prototyped a very small run of blue and lilac colored "leland Era" hardbat rubbers,ATP never marketed the rubbers these on e-bay are the surplus overproduced rubbers by the original toolmaker."


These rubbers are essentially the same as the Reisman Devil Red and Reisman Black Ace in how they play. They are not the same as the original ATP rubbers that more closely matched classic Leyland rubber.

[Boneman]

I believe the main reason is to provide stability when gluing the rubber to a blade. With the cloth backing, the rubber won't tend to shrink up as much when a VOC solvent based glue (rubber cement) is used. For some, the presence of a cloth back is an affirmative indication that this rubber was clearly made for use without sponge (OX) and is not merely a "topsheet."

Hmmm.... Interesting stuff. I do know that even when affixing the cloth backed Reisman rubber to my blade using (gasp!) Tear Mender, it rolled out beautifully. I've not tried the Tear Mender trick with any "linenless" rubber.

Yet.

[Jay Turberville]

Hmmm.... Interesting stuff. I do know that even when affixing the cloth backed Reisman rubber to my blade using (gasp!) Tear Mender, it rolled out beautifully. I've not tried the Tear Mender trick with any "linenless" rubber.

Yet.

TearMender won't cause any rubber to wrinkle or curl since it is water based. But if you have some trimmings of Dr. Evil or some other rubber without fabric handy, spread some rubber cement on it and watch how it wrinkles and distorts. Do the same with any scraps you might have of the Reisman rubber as well and compare.

Rubber cement is the traditional glue that most people have used in the past for gluing up their hardbats.

[JKC]

Dr evil is actually different to all other rubbers because it doesn't wrinkle when you apply rubber cement to it. I was able to use some left over speed glue to attach it to a sponge for a friend and it made no attempt to wrinkle up at all (why he wanted it on sponge I didn't ask). I haven't seen another rubber like it for that. (I have only tried it on the black though.)

Try it. You won't believe your eyes.

[Boneman]

Hmmm.... interesting contradictory observations. I wonder if it might have something to do with environmental conditions. Jay lives in a VERY arid area where I'm sure just about ANYTHING evaporates faster than it does in the UK.

Thoughts?

[Jay Turberville]

Hmmm.... interesting contradictory observations. I wonder if it might have something to do with environmental conditions. Jay lives in a VERY arid area where I'm sure just about ANYTHING evaporates faster than it does in the UK.

Thoughts?

No. Actually I've never tried rubber cement on that particular rubber. I merely assumed it would wrinkle/distort because that is typical behavior for rubbers.

[Boneman]

No. Actually I've never tried rubber cement on that particular rubber. I merely assumed it would wrinkle/distort because that is typical behavior for rubbers.

Hmmm.... actually, pondering it a bit, I've glued Dr. Evil with standard rubber cement and don't recall it rippling or distorting at all either.

The plot thickens.....

[JKC]

As I said, it is different to all other OX LP. Maybe the glue doesn't penetrate the rubber at all or something. I just know if I glued an OX 755 or some other LP, I would end up with a cigar sized tube.

[Jay Turberville]

As I said, it is different to all other OX LP. Maybe the glue doesn't penetrate the rubber at all or something. I just know if I glued an OX 755 or some other LP, I would end up with a cigar sized tube.

My understanding is that Dr. Evil was inspired by the idea of turning a sheet of 729 brand 804 anti-spin around and using the pips side to hit with. But the final formulation is actually a variation/blend of a rubber more commonly used on recreational rackets. It is a fairly hard rubber but not an anti-spin rubber as many believe.

My guess - and I put a strong emphasis on the guess bit - is that this harder rubber is more completely cross linked or vulcanized than softer, tackier and spinnier rubbers. If so, that might explain why it doesn't deform, swell or curl in the presence of solvents.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vulcanization

Also, this rubber is not a long pip rubber.

[Boneman]

Dr. Evil certainly is different stuff for sure. I've actually noticed that using rubber cement not only doesn't seem to deform it... it doesn't like to stick to it to well either.

And yes... it's not at all long pips. I've got some Magic Monkey and some 755 (I think that's it) LP with .5mm sponge and that stuff behaves entirely different than ANYTHING I've used before.

As to the Reisman.... the stuff I have has the linen... and it smells like my red rubber galoshes that I had when I was a kid. I'm thinking... it may be more of a "natural" composition?

The only other rubber that I have that's linen backed is of course the Butterfly OX. What other rubbers are there that are linen backed? Stuff that's actually available for purchase, that is.

[Jay Turberville]

The ATP Reisman and Butterfly Orthodox are all softer but non-tacky compounds. They seem to be very similar in composition to Leyland/Dunlop rubber, but the pips aren't as small and hence they play a bit differently. Note that these rubbers are all quite opaque where rubbers like Dr. Evil, Andro Classic and PeaceKeeper OX are moderately or very transparent. I suspect it has to do with the kinds of colorants or other additives used. I think of these opaque rubbers as being similar to pencil eraser material.

Andro Classic has a fabric backing. Lot's of people like it. You really should try it to see if it suits you. I'm not sure about any other rubbers with fabric backs.

I haven't tried other USATT Hardbat Committee approved rubbers because they have a reputation of being more on the spinny side and I'm trying to avoid that.