china boycott

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

Simple question,is it time for a boycott from sports people on china for thier human rights record,tibet is now a target for china for whatever reasoning,obviously it is wrong,the olympics are arriving soon ,so now is the perfect time for a boycott,to show that the world is watching china.:redcard:
Or do we still say politics and sport should not mix..?

[Mr Wilko]

Wars are started over politics lets just enjoy our sport!!!!!!!!

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

China is hosting the olympic games,the chinese government will be shouting and staging how good they are,when it is clearly not the case,do we as sports people want to be part of an olympic lie.:redcard:

[Annie]

It's a very serious question FCB and one worth some consideration.

[Mr Wilko]

you have a good point FCB!!!!!
you are wasted as a taxi driver vote FCB for parlament !!!!!!

[HarryBelafonte]

:redcard:boycots dont work,only if every country in the world boycotted any event would any pressure come to bear...
we deal with china every day,millions of companies around the world every minute buying selling etc. why should sportsmen and women who have trained all of their lives pay the price for petty politics.:happy:
the thing that will change and has changed these countries is the consumer, the individuals choice,market forces,you cant force the chinese to change.
money and investment and opportunity for the individual will do that. As for Tibet, that is terrible,but all countries are involved in co ertion or ignoring genocide.
no one country has invaded or slaughtered more people or invaded more countries than england,we had the largest empire ever,we did nt get that by being nice...

russia changed very quickly once people viewed the outside world.I think the rocky video had a lot to do with it...:dance3:
i think Matthew (syed)could give us a brilliant dissertation on this...:happy:
where is this masked defender...:dirol:

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

xbTsNu08Xqs&feature

good points harry,and to the most part i agree with them,
not buying chinese products in the uk would be a slow grind to make a difference quickly,we know england have, and still has questions to answer over historical wrong doing,this question is not about other events in history or the present, that other countries have taken part in,its the chinese question im interested in.
Quick action is needed and one certain thing to hurt the chinese government into changing thier view would be a boycott of the olympic games(even the threat of it i believe would change things).:redcard:

[HarryBelafonte]

why just sport though. it would have to be everything.
china has changed immensly just by havin the games.
the magic box of choice has been opened to them ,they will not go back,look at russia.
why do we allow the chinese to play any sport then , boycotts will just start tit for tat recriminations ...
Its all or nothing but where commerce is involved ethics go out of the window.:resent:

[Kev]

I don't think a boycott of the Olympics is the way to go. I think some sort of protests while they are there by atheletes who feel strongly could be effective though. Look at the 1936 games in Munich when Jessie Owens made a mockery of Hitler's Aryan supremacy by defeating all of his 'superior' blond haired blue eyed Germans.

I would like to see the atheletes who feel strongly speak about how wrongly they believe China to be in certain aspects, Tibet being one of the most obvious, in their post match/race interviews. It isn't often you get over one billion people all listening to what you have to say at once and it would seem a shame not to use it to speak out about the human rights abuses etc.

[Dave Robson]

Boycotting the Olympics is never the way to go, for many reasons.....firstly sport shouldnt be mixed with politics although i agree it often is. The politics of sport are best left to the politicians, which as most would agree are usually lining their own sweet pockets full of the hard earned money from its public, that said we still should not boycott something like sport as the sport ultimately will always suffer in the end.


From the outset, Reporters Without Borders has been opposed to holding the Olympic Games to Beijing. Now, a year before the opening ceremony, it is clear the Chinese government still sees the media and Internet as strategic sectors that cannot be left to the “hostile forces” denounced by President Hu Jintao. The departments of propaganda and public security and the cyber-police, all conservative bastions, implement censorship with scrupulous care.

Nice point FCB!

Ps ive repped ya for it!

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

Unfortunately i believe the time has passed for the normal responce to this type of action taken by the chinese government, which would be trade sanctions which is going to be difficult now that china must supply the entire planet with products and produce,If china,s belief in thier actions is strong enough they could weather a trade sanction,im sure they are resolute enough to be able to wangle a way from it,they have done well till now and these abuses have gone on for years with thier own people,now they turn to "war on the holy men" within the country.

Anyway who am i to ask hundreds of athletes to say no im not going to the olympics,they have trained hard for thier events and the olympic games,for some it will be thier first olympics,an exciting and important time in thier lives so i suppose its a complicated thing,but surely making war on holy men has to be met with world condemnation.:redcard:

[Robstar]

China has always had a contraversial outlook on sport Ask Ronnie o;Sullivan
How many storties have I heard that Chinese players were told by officials to not try when they were playing a fellow contryman. Performances in running swimming etc never to be heard of again i believe in china there are dozens of TT players who would be no 1 in this country its also the same in snooker the set up is there but how far r u allowed to develop
The tin man benny and a few others visited a few years and they will tell u how good the man in the factory is
It is improving with Waldner and Lian invovled
gazza tried it over there but didn;t like their HOT Dogs

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

i saw the osullivan video last nite on utube,what is he thinking of,for a while i dint believe it thought it was a spoof or something.crazy antics:fcb:

[The Windmill]

A boycott would acheive nothing, Sport and politics should not be mixed.

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

A boycott would acheive nothing, Sport and politics should not be mixed.

why should it not be mixed,the world of politics has become a business with staggering amounts of money to be made in the world economy.

is politics about people and finance etc, anymore, or has the people part gone,if this is so then less and less will be done for humanity within politics,maybe people will have to sort things out themselves more and more.
The people are the ultimate power in the world and not politicians.
the people are the sportsmen,the people are the musicians,the people are the actors etc etc etc,they are a massive force with a public world wide face,complicated i know and perhaps naive on my part but attacking spiritual communities like tibet is pathetic and abhorant:redcard:

[Hitnhope]

Firstly I think this is a great thread by FCB.

There are a number of points i wish to raise on this issue:

1) As is the case in many countries the the decisions of the minority affect the dailly lives of the majority.

2) I believe that the chinese government has questions to answer over Humanitarian rights as regards to Tibet but this has to be dealt with via political / economical sactions.

3) When the western world beleived that action had to be taken against Sadam Hussein's regime over it's humanitarian issues in Iraq this was done through the UN and sanctions.

4) I think that the point has already been made but is worth reiterating that we and the rest of the world are willing to trade with china as the economic benefits are huge. If we do not think the atrocities are bad enough to cut off all trade then don't let sport suffer.

5) Do we really beleive that if a boycott of a Major sporting event had occured in Iraq in the 1980's then this could have stopped the atrocities against the Kurds in northern Iraq? I think not!

6) Atrocities on this scale can only be avoided by Government actions whether combined or alone on a scale equivalent to major economic sanctions or military intervention.

In my humble opinion many problems both locally and nationally are caused by intolerance of each others cultures, bad communication and not talking. Sport can transend cultures, religions and language barriers if it is allowed to do so.

Rather than boycotting sporting occassions maybe the problems around the world would be helped by TALKING on sites like "Table tennis Talk".

Maybe its time to go international.

How cool would that be!!!

"the Lash":yahoo:

[Annie]

Firstly I think this is a great thread by FCB.

There are a number of points i wish to raise on this issue:

1) As is the case in many countries the the decisions of the minority affect the dailly lives of the majority.

2) I believe that the chinese government has questions to answer over Humanitarian rights as regards to Tibet but this has to be dealt with via political / economical sactions.

3) When the western world beleived that action had to be taken against Sadam Hussein's regime over it's humanitarian issues in Iraq this was done through the UN and sanctions.

4) I think that the point has already been made but is worth reiterating that we and the rest of the world are willing to trade with china as the economic benefits are huge. If we do not think the atrocities are bad enough to cut off all trade then don't let sport suffer.

5) Do we really beleive that if a boycott of a Major sporting event had occured in Iraq in the 1980's then this could have stopped the atrocities against the Kurds in northern Iraq? I think not!

6) Atrocities on this scale can only be avoided by Government actions whether combined or alone on a scale equivalent to major economic sanctions or military intervention.

In my humble opinion many problems both locally and nationally are caused by intolerance of each others cultures, bad communication and not talking. Sport can transend cultures, religions and language barriers if it is allowed to do so.

Rather than boycotting sporting occassions maybe the problems around the world would be helped by TALKING on sites like "Table tennis Talk".

Maybe its time to go international.

How cool would that be!!!

"the Lash":yahoo:

^^^ What he siad! ^^^ :thumbsup:

[Hitnhope]

Aye Or Annie

so that U understand wot i siad is

Dont do it man!
Leave it to the briefs in suits.

Dont punish our bruvers who luv the sport.

Sport is for the peops man

ave it
"the lash":yahoo:

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

Unfortunately i believe the time has passed for the normal responce to this type of action taken by the chinese government, which would be trade sanctions which is going to be difficult now that china must supply the entire planet with products and produce,If china,s belief in thier actions is strong enough they could weather a trade sanction,im sure they are resolute enough to be able to wangle a way from it,they have done well till now and these abuses have gone on for years with thier own people,now they turn to "war on the holy men" within the country.

Anyway who am i to ask hundreds of athletes to say no im not going to the olympics,they have trained hard for thier events and the olympic games,for some it will be thier first olympics,an exciting and important time in thier lives so i suppose its a complicated thing,but surely making war on holy men has to be met with world condemnation.:redcard:

as the politicians say "i refer to my previous answer" the above:redcard:

[Mr Wilko]

politics is all a load of **** causes nothing but trouble and wars, all politicians say one thng until they become elected then dont do what they have said or try to tell people what to do then do the opposite themselve!!!!! RUBBISH

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

EXACTLY.....................so how do we get politicians to stop the chinese attacking holy men if they cant even tell the truth or deal with uk affairs,how can we say let the politicians deal with the chinese and tibet problem,they can solve it,when all politicians do is say one thing then do the other,and deal in war.:redcard:
HOW CAN POLITICIANS BE PEACEMAKERS .
people power:fcb:

[Spongebob!]

Firstly I think this is a great thread by FCB.

...In my humble opinion many problems both locally and nationally are caused by intolerance of each others cultures, bad communication and not talking. Sport can transend cultures, religions and language barriers if it is allowed to do so....

How cool would that be!!!

"the Lash":yahoo:

Well said Keith....

Cheers Spongey! :thumbsup:

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

totally agree keith,but,lets say our government killed and attacked the monks of lindisfarne,would the answers be the same,i.e "sport and politics cannot mix",sport is just something humans do for fitness and enjoyment,i dont follow this argument of not protesting through sport,surely if sport transends cultural ignorance then it can be used to quell wrong doing.:fcb:

[Hitnhope]

I just do not think any boycott of the games would have an impact on changing the attitudes of the Chinese towards the tibetans.

If we look at the situation of the USSR in the 1980's there was a boycott of the Moscow games which only served to devalue the achievements of the athletes who attended and won medals. If you look at the fall of communism in the USSR it was down to economic decline, the need for western investment and a leader in Gorbachov who had the strength to lead them to a new era.

Politicians will be reluctant to push for economic sanctions because of the cost to our own economy, so my point is a boycott should not be used as a 1 in a hundred chance it might work. It will not work.

"the lash":yahoo:

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

I just do not think any boycott of the games would have an impact on changing the attitudes of the Chinese towards the tibetans.

If we look at the situation of the USSR in the 1980's there was a boycott of the Moscow games which only served to devalue the achievements of the athletes who attended and won medals. If you look at the fall of communism in the USSR it was down to economic decline, the need for western investment and a leader in Gorbachov who had the strength to lead them to a new era.

Politicians will be reluctant to push for economic sanctions because of the cost to our own economy, so my point is a boycott should not be used as a 1 in a hundred chance it might work. It will not work.

"the lash":yahoo:

if politicians will not push for sanctions because of the economic impact to our own country then who is it left up to to put a halt to the chinese governements actions ?

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

Apparently according to a television documentary tibet has £4 trillion in oil under its soil,if this is fact then the tibetans have as much chance of staying in thier homes than i have of beating j o waldner 11.0-11.0-11-0 in the final of the worlds.

Tibet looks as though it is under chinese control,tibet is covered with checkpoints in and out and thier are reports of cruelty, torture and zero human rights.

Tibet is one of the worlds greatest spiritual homes,spirituality is mine and yours.

If it is unthinkable that the uk government could take OUR spiritual homes and trash them like a used tin of beans.

Then the same goes for the chinese government.:footstomp:

:redcard: :nono:
:redcard: :nono:

[HarryBelafonte]

:pray::comfort:was reading ,the dal ai lama does not want a boycott of olympics,also he does not want a separate state only the respect of old tibetan cultures.:happy:

[Dave Robson]

The general movement in support of boycotting the 2008 Beijing Olympics has slowly been gaining support from mainstream media and the public since the riots in Tibet recently.

What people should understand before jumping on the Boycott Bandwagon is that China has a long history of human rights issues and the IOC considered all of these issues a long time ago before handing the Chinese the 2008 games. The Games are about the people and the sports - not politics.

The Olympics has long been an organisation proudly independant of politics - so lets keep it that way. There are definately issues to be sorted out in China (has been for a long time) but why drag the Olympics into this?

We should firmly keep sport well distanced from the political bandwagon, which has its place just not in the limelight of the Olympic games.

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

CHINA, OLYMPIC GAMES.:redcard: thats my opinion.

[Mr Wilko]

wont make a difference though FCB!!!!!

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

yep i agree,£4 trillion in oil is a good prize.
another one bites the dust:redcard:

[Mr Wilko]

i wouldnt mind that in my back garden like!!!!!!

[Mr Wilko]

hey FCB it looks like SARKOZY has been reading your thread as he is thinking of an olympic boycott!!!!

Look what you have started!!!!! HAHA

[Annie]

From small Acorns, Trees shall grow :happy:

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

We have put our faith in governments all over the world to push forward a social well being for us all,it has not happened.

I believe we as a human race are in decline socially and spiritually,
we cannot continue on the present road any longer.

I believe we must draw a line in the soil and say thats enough,am i right in thinking thier are more wars going on in the world than their ever has been in history.

Tibet is a spiritual home,we need them,"if a butterfly flaps its wings in china, will a wind blow in the west"
16

Do we put our faith in our governments once again ?:redcard:

[HarryBelafonte]

:bag:probably not as many as the first and second world wars,but quite a few all the same...:resent:

[Annie]

Hey FCB! Was that you I saw being arrested on the News today? :resent:


Actually on a serious note I'm behind you in a way FCB. I think what should happen is the Olympic Committee should move the Games to another country. Sanctions and Boycotts finally worked in South Africa.

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

A butterfly did flap its wings in china,and a wind has blown in the west.

All over the world in fact,via the mass media and personal reports, i believe the chinese government now have to start thinking about thier actions and how they need to repair the damage.


17

[Moggy]

yep i agree,£4 trillion in oil is a good prize.

That should allow them to make a few dozen million TT rubbers for their people.

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

the oil may or may not be a true fact,that titbit was picked up from either a tv documentary on tibet or radio 5live.

[Dave Robson]

I read an article by a guy below ..........as you will read, dangerous talk when you go down the political avenue before sport..........



By JONATHAN ZIMMERMAN
GUEST COLUMNIST
NEW YORK -- A fascist regime plans to host the Olympic Games. Critics call for a boycott, but the Games come off as planned. And on the field of world opinion, the host scores an enormous victory.
Berlin in 1936? No, Beijing in 2008.

Now that the Winter Olympics are over, all eyes will soon turn to the Summer Olympics. And that's just what the Chinese want. Like the Germans of the '30s, they will use the Olympics to showcase their economy -- and hide their repressive behavior.
But the rest of us don't have to help. Lest we repeat the errors of 1936, the United States should lead a boycott of the 2008 Olympics. Anything less will give the Chinese the same kind of propaganda boost that the Nazis enjoyed.

If you don't believe me, go rent Leni Riefenstahl's prize-winning documentary, "Olympia." Released on Adolf Hitler's birthday in 1938, two years after the Berlin Olympics, the film shows the Games -- and the Germans -- in all their glory: the enormous main stadium, expanded to hold 110,000 spectators; the Olympic Village, boasting 100 buildings and 387 dining halls; the pageantry of the Olympische Jugend ("Olympic Youth"), who wowed audiences with their festive dances.

Hitler was no great fan of sport, fearing that athletic competition would elevate the individual over the all-powerful state. But he recognized the enormous potential of the Olympics to burnish Germany's international standing -- which needed all the help it could get. As early as 1933, a New York Times editorial had suggested that the Nazis' "race doctrine" contradicted the spirit of peace, equality and fair play at the heart of the Olympics.
So Hitler issued strict orders: No racism at this Olympics. Defenders of the decision to hold the Games in Berlin often point to African-American track champion Jesse Owens, whose four gold medals undermined Nazi racial ideology.

According to one well-worn myth, a deflated Hitler refused to shake hands with Owens after the runner had destroyed the Third Reich's pretensions of "Aryan" superiority.
But the truth is almost exactly the opposite. Rather than challenging Nazi racism, the triumphs of Owens and other black athletes let the Germans hide it.

"The racial point of view should not in any form be a part of the discussion of the athletic results," the German Ministry of Propaganda warned. "Special care should be exercised not to offend Negro athletes." Indeed, the ministry reprimanded one newspaper after it took a potshot at America's "black auxiliaries." Hitler refused to pare footage of Owens and other black stars from Riefenstahl's film, rejecting suggestions that the documentary was too "positive" toward African-Americans.

Fast-forward to Beijing in 2008, when we can expect China's dictators to disguise their cruelties in a colorful haze of artistic and technological wizardry.
To be fair, the Chinese leaders have never demonstrated the genocidal mentality or the global ambitions of Nazi Germany. And nominally, of course, China remains a "communist" nation. But make no mistake: It's also a fascist one.
According to my American Heritage dictionary, fascism is marked by four characteristics: centralization of authority under a dictator; stringent socio-economic controls; suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship; and a policy of belligerent nationalism. The Chinese regime exhibits all four.

This government welcomes private business, but subjects it to the strict regulation of large state cartels. It routinely whips citizens into furious protests against foreign "spies" and "interlopers," allegedly poised to strike at any moment. Most of all, it carefully monitors all communication -- including the Internet -- for the smallest signs of dissent. Critics of the regime often find themselves out of work, or laboring in prison camps. Or dead.
Why should we help this brutal state by participating in its cynical Olympic spectacle? Why not sit this one out?
Back in 1936, we almost did. According to one poll, 43 percent of Americans favored a boycott of the Berlin Games. Boycott supporters included the Catholic War Veterans; the Anti-Defamation League of B'nai B'rith; Al Smith, the Democrats' 1928 presidential nominee; and the theologian Reinhold Niebuhr.

New York's largest black newspaper, The Amsterdam News, also backed a boycott.
But other African-American periodicals said the Games should go on, to give black athletes the chance to compete.
Eventually, of course, the United States Olympic Committee voted to participate in the Berlin Games.
Americans attended every Olympics until the Moscow Games, of 1980, which they boycotted to protest the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan. Sixty-two countries joined the boycott, including -- you guessed it -- the People's Republic of China.

So spare me the anguished retort about "politicizing" the Olympics. The Olympics have always been political. And no one understands that better than the Chinese leaders, who are counting on the Games to advertise their achievements -- and mask their misdeeds.

The only question is whether the rest of the world will play along.


So many nasty feelings within the article its quite obvious the person who wrote it has the same hidden political agenda as the very people he is commenting on.

[Kev]

I it would be good if there was another category in the poll Dave which reads something like;

'We should not boycott the olympics but atheletes should be allowed to make their own personal protests if they wish.'

[Dave Robson]

I have added another addition to the poll.........

"Athletes should be able to decide themselves"

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

america-united kingdom-china-africa-russia-germany-afghanistan-argentina-etc etc etc.the list goes on.

we are classed as humans,people,folk,men,woman,we have one life,there is no devine definitive proof that i know of that we have another bat at the wicket after this.

those people who take the choice of killing i.e death and inflicting it onto another is in a state of insanity,a place that is beyond comprehension

we are made of,flesh,blood,bones and a magnificent thing called a brain.

We feel pain,physical and emotional,we feel pain in many areas,from the boxer to the little old lady that visits the post office for her pension,we are fragile,we can break.18

the further i write into this the further i get into a web of complicated arguments,i will try to keep it simple.

imagine this,"if it were you staring at your life for the last time, knowing your loved ones,your life,your hopes,your emotion,your passion,your physical body will soon be wiped from the earth,how would it feel.

i do not want to contemplate my thoughts i had on this again.
by killing one person you destroy many emotionaly so actual statistics on
war losses could be argumentatively increased.

we are very good at building things,a computer is a good example.
we build aircraft,we can repair a human body,how incredible is that.in the words of george from black adder,"bally blummin fabulous"

our emotion passion and feelings are like an energy with no bounds nor restraint, coming from within us.
we are truly remarkable and amazing

so why do we kill each other ?
because we can and because we take the choice to do so.

this is how far we have come as a human race,
on a scale of 0 to infinity i believe we still havnt even reached the 0, yet.

it is the end of this post and i have shaken my head in disgust at what we are doing to each other.
19

[Loopy]

The whole Olympics has become a little political game for many Countries including the United kingdom with scoring points and being "sqeaky clean" on the outside but slightly tarnished once you break the layers down. The British Govenrment have been or are being more than clever on the touchy areas with Gordon Brown getting close ish but not touching the torch so as to be distant from the China issues that have raised their ugly head at this wonderful sporting time.

Table Tennis i hope does not become a caualty in all of this political ping pong as the sport could truly prosper and develop if put on the media stage alongside many other fringe sports in the Olympics.

[NativeNewYorker]

I have voted simply Atheletes should decide themselves, which is difficult if a country decides to boycott but its the only sensible way to go about something of this nature.

[MK Chris]

Nice post, Mr FantasyCheeseBasin, I applaud your principles. I agree with the post in general.


bally blummin fabulous
While we're quoting Blackadder..

"Cluck cluck, gibber gibber, my old man's a mushroom, etc"
"Well in that case Doctor, let me extend my most enthusiastic, Contrafibularities."
"Am I jumping the gun, Baldrick, or are the words 'I have a cunning plan' marching with ill-deserved confidence in the direction of this conversation?"

I may have to dig the boxset out this weekend (skipping series one, of course.)

[HarryBelafonte]

nice one mk chris,im a 40 day man myself,hurrrraaaaa!!!!

think fcb should shave his head and get some incense..

3rd series the best,prince george,2 dolphins on toast.....:taz:

strange for a chap who can have an argument in an empty room...

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

George....Sir,(said inquisitively) "whats the procedure for stepping on a landmine"


Blackadder...."Well george,jump 500 feet in the air and scatter yourself over a wide area"

"permission to speak damn bally loudly in a loud voice that,ll make your blummin britches fall off."

HOORAH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Highside]

should be able to make own desicion

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

Chinese Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Jiang Yu

She said "the Olympic torch relay was delivering the Olympic concept of peace, friendship and harmony and the Olympic spirit. Any disturbance or disruption of the torch relay was an open provocation of the Olympic charter and the Olympic spirit and a challenge to the world's people who love peace and the Olympic Games."

Does this mean that the torch of peace will spread its light and harmony throughout the chinese government,does this mean the chinese government will relaease tibet from its shackles,will the chinese government become part of this friendly, harmonic and peacefull event ?

[SteveJ]

I would never boycott the Olympics, polotics are well left out of sport and especially Table Tennis.

[TheMoose]

Should be able to choose themselves