Fuel!

[Annie]

What on earth is going on with the fuel prices today? I have a view but would like to know what you all think?

[Mr Wilko]

its rediculous Annie gordon Brown needs to have a word with himself and get it sorted!!!!!

[Belisar]

I do not especially worry about it as it penalises people who drive most and therefore pollute most. It would be nice if monies raised from it were put into other means of transport though. Without effective other means you are forcing some to drive. Increase the tax but give people a realistic alternative.

Increasing car tax on older cars is more of a worry. If you have low levels of disposable income and cannot afford a new car then you have to pay more tax. Oddly I always thought labour ideals were to help the poor.

[Annie]

It's a Government rip off if you ask me! I think it's time we leave the European Market before we are bled dry! Consider why the Countries taxes are on the increase?

[Werewolf]

Belisar! Will directly effect the amount of tournaments anyone can enter and I will have to greatly reduce what I and my 2 children do next year, but also the price of everything has gone up as a result, OAPs couldn't pay for heating and food last year, what is going to happen by next winter. In my view this government should reduce the fuel tax comparable with most of Europe and the price will drop so much the whole economy would pick up dramatically as a result as we cannot compete at all with other countries prices

[Annie]

There is that issue too but also (and this is not against Europeans personally) but we have had a huge influx of European workers coming here because they have the right to. Some how I can't imagine going to work in Poland for 6 months and then being eligible to receive the equivalent of £400 Families Tax Credit per month and receiving rebates left right and centre. This is exactly what has happened to a neighbour of mine and I think it's outrageous!

Surely the eligibility to benefits should reflect the contribution to the system and or the length of time of residency? There are Pensioners out there that have worked hard for years and have contributed to this country. How can we justify giving so much away to migrants and so little to the people that helped build this country?

Our benefits system is too generous to the wrong people in my mind. In fact so much so I believe it will bring the country to it's knees.

[MK Chris]

How the Government can claim that inflation is just over 3% is beyond me; it's far more. As a result of the fuel increases, the cost of transporting grocery goods to shops has also increased and that increase is pushed on to the consumer.

The petrol companies can hardly blame the price of oil... at least two of the main forecourt operators have recently reported record profits (one was Shell, I can't remember what the other one was; possibly BP.)

It's a nightmare and a big worry.

[Annie]

Indeed this is a very serious situation because so much relies upon transportation. Every week I become poorer and poorer. If I gave up my car it would cost me more in bus fares (and I suspect these will be going up too because of fuel prices). I've been looking to change my job but would have to travel and a car would be a must so again this would cost too much.

In my mind someone has taken their eye of the ball!

[Belisar]

We suddenly seem to be relating an awful lot of things to fuel prices and the related tax.

If they reduce the tax then either another has to go up or Govt spending has to reduce (in simple terms). Somewhere along the line someone has to lose. It is ok to criticise but I am not sure there is a foolproof alternative and we cannot jusy have something for nothing.

Oil prices are over $130 a barrel. That is nothing to do with UK taxes but because Opec are a bunch of greedy whatsits who have the capacity to increase output and therefore reduce price, but choose not to as they want to line their own pockets.

Looking further ahead oil and therefore petrol and diesel are a very finite resource that adversely impact on the ecology of the planet. Sooner or later we will have to find an alternative because the stuff will simply run out.

The downside seems to me to be that most governments (including ours) do not take the ecology seriously and are happy to let car production companies take the lead in finding another source of fuel for cars. They have little incentive to do that because the R&D costs them money.

Future generations are likely to be cursing us because valuable hydrocarbons which can be used for some much have been simply burned and that has helped mess up the ecosystem.

As I said they should use the funds to plan for the future. Werewolf's kids would not have to go everywhere in the car if there were alternatives.

[Belisar]

There is that issue too but also (and this is not against Europeans personally) but we have had a huge influx of European workers coming here because they have the right to...

Surely the eligibility to benefits should reflect the contribution to the system and or the length of time of residency? ...

Our benefits system is too generous to the wrong people in my mind. In fact so much so I believe it will bring the country to it's knees.

What would you do to one of these economic migrants then who comes here with a family and cannot get a job ?

Let them starve or send them home ?

[Annie]

What would you do to one of these economic migrants then who comes here with a family and cannot get a job ?

Let them starve or send them home ?

Send them home. I know this sounds harsh but we will not be able to help anyone in the long run if we cripple our own economy. One has to be strong first in order to be strong for others.

[Mr Wilko]

Send them home. I know this sounds harsh but we will not be able to help anyone in the long run if we cripple our own economy. One has to be strong first in order to be strong for others.


well said Annie it is a disgrace, we look after all these immigrants better than we do our own we should send the lot home or adopt the aussie's ruling were they are only allowed into the country if they have a profession we are a laughing stock ............... the price of everything is going up but do our wages ...................................... NO

[Annie]

well said Annie it is a disgrace, we look after all these immigrants better than we do our own we should send the lot home or adopt the aussie's ruling were they are only allowed into the country if they have a profession we are a laughing stock ............... the price of everything is going up but do our wages ...................................... NO

I have been on the same salary for 3 years now. I'm not against Europeans by any means, I mean my parents were invited here in 1956 but what I do object to is the benefits system our Government has agreed to. I am not aware of any other European country being as generous to us so as I see it, it should be like for like.

[Annie]

Further more the national health theory is an honourable one but the qualification for these benefits should be restricted to people who have had sufficient residency in this country and in my mind 6 months don't cut it!

[Roger]

It's a Government rip off if you ask me! I think it's time we leave the European Market before we are bled dry! Consider why the Countries taxes are on the increase?

That's nothing to do with the european market. Brussels is not influencing whether Alistair Darling and Brown are taxing the poor... that's their decision... unfortunately...

I personnally think there is more to it then meet the eyes... I think it's a lot about controlling people... The more tax you pay the less free you are ... and then when the goverment "helps" we say they are OK afterall...

let's take charge of ourselves and let's not get them to control us too much... one day it might just be too late...

What do you think?

[Roger]

Yes it's a lot to do with this government. No need to put an extra 2p on taxes when thjey already get more in taxes because the prices of crude petrol has gone up...

I do think the west and i am from the west are at fault as well.. because creating political tensions as we have done does not help either... going to war against Irak and hinting that we may try to obiterate iran do not help...

Let's see what we can from home before we start to blame others...

[Belisar]

For those who are genuinely interested in the fuel tax debate have a look on the BBCi player at last night's question time.

The first question was on fuel tax and there were some interesting answers.

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

we are all getting shafted, to but it bluntly,the fuel situation is laughable ,every time i go to a forecourt to fill up i feel like parking my car and walking away from it,in protest and in disgust at this obvious mismanagement of the country,maybe every person in england should stop thier engines safely and sit for 1 hour in protest. a daft idea maybe but im so p***** off with it now.

[Kev]

Send them home. I know this sounds harsh but we will not be able to help anyone in the long run if we cripple our own economy. One has to be strong first in order to be strong for others.

With our ageing population and massive increases in the number of pensioners who cannot work (which will continue over the next few years) if it wasn't for these migrants our economy would have shut down a few years ago. We should be thanking them, not sending them home.


Further more the national health theory is an honourable one but the qualification for these benefits should be restricted to people who have had sufficient residency in this country and in my mind 6 months don't cut it!


So we sent immigrants home from NHS hospitals to die?!!!

If it wasn't for migrants where would our national health service be?! When I knackered the cruciate ligament in my left knee the first Doctor I saw was Asian, the second was Eastern European and the third was a German who was born in Brazil! Without them I still wouldn't be able to walk right now.

We can all look for scape goats but the tough finincial situation the country is in now is down to the trouble the US economy is having. This is having a knock on effect all over the world. Using immigration as the scapegoat is not the answer.

[HarryBelafonte]

A good point,but where the problem seems to occur is with the million or so poles taking up jobs such as plumbing,electricians brickies etc,why pay 25 pound per hour,when a pole will do it for 5-10 pound, the problem started with skill shortage I believe but with the crash in housing there are not enough jobs to go round, also most immigrants do jobs we dont particularly like anyway but with the dole queue rising its about time a lot of spongers were made to take a job,, any job.
But a lot of people who want to work can only get agency work as most menail jobs are taken by immigants,its a major issue and a big problem.

Just to say ive just had my knee done,nurse was an african,then the nurse doing my paperwork was chinese,surgeon was east european and
a thist was indian....
op went well...
Needs someone clever to sort it,:happy:

[Belisar]

but with the dole queue rising

Actually unemployment levels are not rising. In the second half of 2006 it reached 5.5% but has been falling (albeit by a small percentage) ever since. Almost every economist will tell you there is a natural floor in the rate of unemployment of about 4% (i.e. it is impossible to get below that level).

A good point,but where the problem seems to occur is with the million or so poles taking up jobs

Stats on the economic migrants in the UK are sparse (and perhaps untrustworthy) but it seems to be accepted that there has been an increase in the foreign nationals working in the UK of 1.1 million over the last 10 years. That is probably a lot less than most people would think.

As far as economic migrants are concerned I think the case for and against involvement in a European Union is not especially simple. There are obvious issues however. A council close to me actually gives housing priority to people born outside of the UK which has to be morally wrong.

If we could remove those ridiculous issues we would have more chance to focus on the real and economically based arguments. To use Harry's example, a competitor to a plumber who charges less is not good for the plumber but is good for the consumer.

Fact is the world is changing.

We have pumped over half of the world oil supplies out of the ground already meaning that getting to the rest of it is becoming more and more expensive. Oil prices are not going to fall and with the current focus on 'green' taxes it would seem there is little chance of VAT on fuel being reduced.

I feel more strongly about the increased car tax on older vehicles. With most people finding they have to tighten their belts and thus cannot afford a new car, taxing someone because of the car they bought 5 years ago seems a bit harsh.

What the current Government said some time ago was that it would use monies raised from increases in fuel tax to fund alternatives. It has not done that, however as far as world Governments go, it is not alone.

[Kev]

A good point,but where the problem seems to occur is with the million or so poles taking up jobs such as plumbing,electricians brickies etc,why pay 25 pound per hour,when a pole will do it for 5-10 pound, the problem started with skill shortage I believe

I agree about the skills shortage.

This comes from the idea that everyone should go to college and university. As a result we have a lot of people with media studies and communication degrees who can't get a job and no-one with skills such as plumbing, building etc.

Young people are being railroaded into further education whether they want it onr not!

[HarryBelafonte]

economists or not the unemployment rate seems to rising very quickly in the north east,with factories closing every day,also when the 5 million who are on incapacity benefit are made to work or become included in the dole figures the total will increase 2.5 million at a stroke.
probably some figure manipulation wll be found to re address the balance as it were.

the world is changing and its only going to get increasingly difficult to carry on as we are.New solutions have to be found.
Governments will have to actually do something not look like their trying to remedy the problem but secretly taxing us and increasing their massive pensions..

[Belisar]

when the 5 million who are on incapacity benefit are made to work or become included in the dole figures the total will increase 2.5 million at a stroke.
probably some figure manipulation wll be found to re address the balance as it were...

Incapacity benefit numbers are 2.6 million but I think that number is 3 times what it was 20 years ago. Figure manipulation is an interesting point, it is probably fair to say that the way all of these stats are measured is completely different from what it was 20 years ago. It does make it hard to know exactly what is going on.

the world is changing and its only going to get increasingly difficult to carry on as we are.New solutions have to be found.
Governments will have to actually do something not look like their trying to remedy the problem but secretly taxing us and increasing their massive pensions..

It does seem to me that people want things that do not quite match.

Green issues are moving higher and higher up people's list of priorities but those same people object to green taxes (largely because they object to taxes in general).
People want better services but again find it hard to swallow the tax levels associated with those services.

It would be interesting to see in as simple a way as possible what funds are coming into the Govt coffers and where it gets spent. We know that vehicle related taxes do not get ploughed back into improving roads or developing different alternatives. We also know that the Government is having to borrow £2.6bn to provide the compensation package it promised following the loss of the 10p tax band.

So where does all the money go ?