The perfect serve.

[Mrs Nickerbater]

We all have [or should have] a range of serves in our arsenal, but is there a particular serve that everyone should have and be taught/coached.

[DaveR]

Well now lets get this service thing sorted......................new ideas new thoughts and indeed a whole new area ...............Serve !

Im on it now

[SammyBoy]

Probably one of the single most popular areas average players tend to forget, tending to focus upon other strengths that already exist.

[Leeston]

Hi Everyone - As a left hander, I have found my serve to be very troubling to most players. I use the high toss serve on the backhand. With a quarter turn ( as though I was preparing for a F/H topspin ) and your arm up and forward ( a bit like a scare crow ) with your elbow up high and your bat hand hanging down, you are able to impact invisible spin with the brush of the bat on the ball, contacting the side / underneath.

Your can also impart topspin by bringing the back upwards at the very last minute - its quite amusing seeing this short serve create the effect you want when the opponent tries to work what happend and you smash the ball past them. ( Te He )

It is key to use the energy in gravity to convert into spin hence, you blade just needs lightly brush the ball - the effect is amazing and can be varied so easily - without the opponent knowing. Watching the ball dance sideways and dropping down is very upsetting to an opponent ! ( Te He )

As the spin is dependant upon the point of contact and movement, its so subtle that by the time the opponent has worked it out - you've moved on to another type of spin and your another point up. And........its legal in all respects ! Note your stance is ready for a forehand topspin if needed - less effort as well compared to the F/H equivalent.

It does take practice - but with a little effort, it will give you something different in your play - after all, how many players do you see using the high toss serve on the backhand ?

The benefit is you can create short / long sidespin / underspin serves - if your opponent returns it ( How dare they ! ) then the best solution is to make contact as soon as it bounces in your side of the table with a delecate push and your will find the spin will go right back into the opponent. Always treat the return of service with care as ITS LOADED with spin.
Well, hope this helps stimulate some thought ?

[DaveR]

It is key to use the energy in gravity to convert into spin hence, you blade just needs lightly brush the ball - the effect is amazing and can be varied so easily - without the opponent knowing. Watching the ball dance sideways and dropping down is very upsetting to an opponent ! ( Te He )


Well i have to say the description is accurate and the picture in my mind the same, i have done the same for a number of years but the key is the words here.......it has to be subtle and very few players find this easy and many still even after lots of hard work catch the ball "thick" creating less illusion and on the way less spin.

The whole concept is great and hey take a video we want to see it !

ps i like the scarecrow bit too !

pps nice to have you on the site

[Leeston]

Many thanks Dave.

The other thing to mention here is that do not hit the back of the ball ! it must be the side / underside - otherwise you will put too much forward energy and less spin which means its hitable the other end - and we don't want that do we !

The above is relevant to any serve as there is very little forward energy needed to get the ball over the net at the point of serve. Also, the flick of the wrist on this serve is also critical - the arm is too slow for such a delecate serve do ensure that you exercise the use of the wrist to "fizz" the ball. Be careful though, you run the risk of pulling a tendon if you don't warm up etc ( I know how that feels ! ) Ouch.

[Leeston]

I'm flowing now ....hold me back someone ! For those left handers out there.

Here's another serve to try - very simple, but useful to steel a point. Look out for those players who stand a little further away from the table. Imagine you are doing a push serve - make sure you throw that ball up six inches or above ! Pull the playing arm elbow in at the last minute, to make an angle and play the shot and the angle of your blade will be sufficient to put the ball right in the corner, just over the net on left had side - ( it could be classed as a 10% ball.)

Your opponent will stumble around the table desperately reaching for this short angles ball which will drop very quickly because you have put very little pace into it, creating you the advantage in the next shot.

Note - Serving is the only time YOU have full control of the ball so use this advantage. Ensure you do not rush the serve, have structure and take your time - throw the ball up as this actually helps you !

If you are on the receiving end of a rather difficult service, I have found that if you a) take it very early with a "positive" stroke or b) chop the ball back with plenty of wrist then you gain control and add further pressure on the ball.

Also, think about the concept of reading the ball - watch the point of contact, bat movement, bounce and flight path and you will soon begin to see how easy it can be.......... practice makes perfect ! Watch other people play to develop this skill.

Interesting fact, people tend to communicate to 2 main ways - 80% body language / 20% verbal. So all you are doing is developing a skill you already have !

[Martyn L]

A thoroughly interesting topic. I have won many points with the high thrown serve over the years and against good quality players too. Although I am not currently coaching, I do find it hard to teach the serves that I have perfected over the years. I feel that players are too scared of missing the ball and tend to play safe with their services. As it has rightly been pointed out - the serve is the only time you have complete control of the rally.

[DaveR]

Most players do exactly as stated and feel they will miss the ball completely, the wrist is by far the best way to impart illusion and perfect contact but many choose a tight wrist with a sure contact rather than a perfect contact and a greater spin with the choice of any direction in most cases.....done correctly that is.

[Leeston]

Hi Peeps !

I've being using technical serves for over 20 years and still miss a few more that I really should - but I know the player the other end is not looking forward to playing me because of it ( te he ) . The trick is to slow down and not rush, watch the ball and point of contact. There is a tendancy to rely on the natural sixth sense which has its shortfalls.

All very easy in theory, but when dealing with emotions, frustrations, getting over a bad day, etc while on the table, it becomes quite a challenge. Complete focus is key.

Here's another thought for you - How many people do you know that serve so the ball falls off the side of the table rather than the end ? I would guesstimate around 80% of serves will be off the end of the table rather than the side - if you have a chance to see your opponent in action, its worth considering this as if you can predict the serve, you are in a far better position to attack / control it.

The science behind our game is amazing and can really enhance your understansding - the abilty to read people's body language, understand the physics and psychology is a key skill that can make a good player into a really good player.

On a personal level, I have found coaching an opportunity to explore and experiment on the above and not only improve my game but more importantly, the people around me.

Bouncing ideas, etc off other players is also an informative way to see things from a different angle. Watching other players to see what works for them is also beneficial - but you need the right mind set to analyse the play in order to begin to tune into the technical element of the shot.

The other thing to consider is the bat you are using. Spin = friction ( Dwell time ) . The more friction, the more spin. The rubber needs to "hold" the ball to create the spin you are looking for.

Hence the speed of your blade and rubbers will have a very important impact on your abilty to serve with spin. I appreciate this is a whole different topic, but consider the difference of bouncing a golf ball on a patio, to bouncing it on grass - the contact time for the patio is minimal as its so hard, but the grass will absorb the energy as the golf ball sinks into it, thus more contact time with the ball = more spin in table tennis terms.

So if you had a fast blade, with say 1.1m sponge, in the example about, how would it react ........compared to say an all round blade, with 2mm Friendship rubber ? In reality, there are also so many other factors to consider that would impact this but its gets you thinking doesn't it ?

Remeber - its the wrist that does most of the work in serving so practice "flicking" the wrist to exercise the tendons, etc - the arm is there to contribute, but primarily is there to make sure the wrist is in the right position. If you use too much arm, its very easy to read so you will lose some advantage.

Its a great game isn't it !

[Leeston]

Hi Peeps,
Here's another little gem - needs to be used on those players who have demonstrated their lack of abilty to read a serve ( There are loads out there ) .

The first serve you do is a powefull & totally loaded backhand chop with a little noise of effort to go with it ( grunt ) - setting up the opponent to read your next serve. Whilst its not hidden so much, you hope the opponent still misreads the spin and as its loaded, but still need to be treated with respect. ( Top tip - Keep that bat as flat as you can as you want very little forward energy, just lots of that lovely spin - "May the fizz be with you OB1 !" )

So, the opponent puts it in the net - as its short, if they push it passively and get it over the net then it can end up as topspin on the return ( It takes a while to understand this so shout if you need this explaining further ). You then do exactly the same serve again, with the same body laguage, noise, etc .........except on the downward stroke you miss the ball and catch it on the upward stroke to create a bit of topspin.

It takes a little practice but once mastered, is a great little serve to use - quite fun to watch your opponent stick the ball nice and high in the air for you to smash past them ( I'm not really that nasty .........honest ! )

You could do the same again but hit the back of the ball with no spin but you must be careful not to put it long otherwise you get more practice in comming "second" in a rally.

************************************************** *****

Thought of the day - When your on the receiving side of the serve / in a rally, how often does the ball move fast enough, with sufficient power for the second bounce to be off the end of the table ?

I would guesstimate that around 85% of the time, there is too much energy on the ball to stop its second bounce being on the table hence.........yep, you guessed it, you can hit it ! I particulary look for this when I force my opponent to push the ball as its practically ALWAYS too long so ideal for me to come in with my sidespin loaded loop.

Do you know why this works so well ? Becuase most people don't practice playing a tighter game and they are quite often using the wrong for this style of play ! with the super fast blades and rubbers, great when your hitting but in a "tight" game, there is less feel and ability to take the pace off the ball. ( appreciating that you need to impose your strengths on the game to make this happend - but if you don't guess who will ? )

OK - so this is a bit "ideal world" but hey - next time you are on the receiving end of a push, its your opponent 's invitation for you to attack them !

To demonstrate the point I'm making, look how close the ball must bounce to the net for the second bounce to be on the table. Then mark it, have a rally and see how often the first bounce is no where near it - quite amazing when you see it.

Same principal applies for the serve, just be respectful of any spin on it - so catch it as early as possible off you side of the table to give it back to them with extra fizz from you.

Its a harsh game out there !

[Spinmaster]

Hi Peeps,
Here's another little gem - needs to be used on those players who have demonstrated their lack of abilty to read a serve ( There are loads out there ) .

The first serve you do is a powefull & totally loaded backhand chop with a little noise of effort to go with it ( grunt ) - setting up the opponent to read your next serve. Whilst its not hidden so much, you hope the opponent still misreads the spin and as its loaded, but still need to be treated with respect. ( Top tip - Keep that bat as flat as you can as you want very little forward energy, just lots of that lovely spin - "May the fizz be with you OB1 !" )

So, the opponent puts it in the net - as its short, if they push it passively and get it over the net then it can end up as topspin on the return ( It takes a while to understand this so shout if you need this explaining further ). You then do exactly the same serve again, with the same body laguage, noise, etc .........except on the downward stroke you miss the ball and catch it on the upward stroke to create a bit of topspin.

It takes a little practice but once mastered, is a great little serve to use - quite fun to watch your opponent stick the ball nice and high in the air for you to smash past them ( I'm not really that nasty .........honest ! )

You could do the same again but hit the back of the ball with no spin but you must be careful not to put it long otherwise you get more practice in comming "second" in a rally.

************************************************** *****

Thought of the day - When your on the receiving side of the serve / in a rally, how often does the ball move fast enough, with sufficient power for the second bounce to be off the end of the table ?

I would guesstimate that around 85% of the time, there is too much energy on the ball to stop its second bounce being on the table hence.........yep, you guessed it, you can hit it ! I particulary look for this when I force my opponent to push the ball as its practically ALWAYS too long so ideal for me to come in with my sidespin loaded loop.

Do you know why this works so well ? Becuase most people don't practice playing a tighter game and they are quite often using the wrong for this style of play ! with the super fast blades and rubbers, great when your hitting but in a "tight" game, there is less feel and ability to take the pace off the ball. ( appreciating that you need to impose your strengths on the game to make this happend - but if you don't guess who will ? )

OK - so this is a bit "ideal world" but hey - next time you are on the receiving end of a push, its your opponent 's invitation for you to attack them !

To demonstrate the point I'm making, look how close the ball must bounce to the net for the second bounce to be on the table. Then mark it, have a rally and see how often the first bounce is no where near it - quite amazing when you see it.

Same principal applies for the serve, just be respectful of any spin on it - so catch it as early as possible off you side of the table to give it back to them with extra fizz from you.

Its a harsh game out there !

Many players find the serve / practice a tedious excercise with little reward in respect of fast play, the reality is most average players remain average not only through lack of practice but lack practice in thier weakest areas, serve and recieve happens to be one of the major causes of "cheap" points in matches and especially so in the new or relatively new 11-up system where two or three poor serves can have a drastic effect on the outcome of a match.

[Leeston]

Hi Peeps,
Imagine the conversation at a football match "i know the rules of the game don't allow players to pick up the ball but it was much easier for me to score the goal and anyway and I never agreed with that rule anyway.... no one else has questioned me about it in the last 35 years I’ve been playing "

What would happen ? the individual would be branded as a "cheat" and kicked out. So why is it in table tennis we allow people to cheat ! Not knowing is not an excuse - Appreciating that this is down to being lazy, lack of consideration of the rules, stupidity and the fact that a few individuals are trying to gain an unfair advantage.

If you are able bodied and can function in day to day society then you can serve properly - no excuse - unless your in the category of being a one cell organism ? Then there's the issue of the umpire ( with the greatest respect ) being to too timid to call a foul ( cheating ) serve.

Hence, our games has ended up with different boundaries and rules which ultimately makes a mockery of the game.

The most common I have come across is the "off the hand" serve -Yeah like I am going to let you get away with that.....NOT ! ( te he ). Going slightly off track, not so long ago I was in duce in the fifth and the opponent did the "I must tie up my shoe lace" trick on me - I walked over to his side of the table and laughed at him in front of his team mates and asked if that was the best he could come up with to win the game. Such a sad reflection on the standards and this obsession that winning is the only deliverable out of a GAME of table tennis - they have no idea !

Anyway, to get back to the serve - Over time I have found that one of the most positive changes to be made to an individuals serve is to throw the ball up higher as its actually of benefit ! Yes benefit to the server.

With the right practice, the higher you throw the ball up, the further it has to drop the more energy is on the ball the more effect you have as a result of it - gravity is there for us to use, so use it !

You can use this downwards energy to convert to a fast of heavy spin serve - and its all free ! As a spin player myself, I focus on the brush of the ball knowing that the angle of my bat will be more than sufficient to re-direct the downward energy forwards onto the table.

Its so easy and makes the serve 100% legal ! You also gain the advantage the your opponent will be watching the ball as it rises and falls therefore not paying attention to your bat to see what you are doing !

So to all those "foul servers" out there - wake up as there's an opportunity out there and its of benefit to you and the game.

Gosh, I feel better now as I put my soap box away for another day. The therapy is working ! ( Te He )

Actually, I'll start a new thread where people can add all the ways in which players have chosen to "stretch" the rules of the game.

[ChrisH]

I can vouch for Lee's serves, having been on the receiving end!

I have also witnessed some younger team members being intimidated by older players in this respect, particularly in the lower divisions. If the young player questions the serve the offender quite often gets very huffy and sometimes agressive, thus spoiling the game and causing unnecessary stress in what should be just a bit of fun. I don't know what the solution is. Every year the league handbook quite clearly states the serving rules yet they get flouted.
Does anyone have a non-confrontational suggestion to address a foul server? Quite often the umpire will be from the same team as the offender.

Chris H

[DaveR]

I can vouch for Lee's serves, having been on the receiving end!

I have also witnessed some younger team members being intimidated by older players in this respect, particularly in the lower divisions. If the young player questions the serve the offender quite often gets very huffy and sometimes agressive, thus spoiling the game and causing unnecessary stress in what should be just a bit of fun. I don't know what the solution is. Every year the league handbook quite clearly states the serving rules yet they get flouted.
Does anyone have a non-confrontational suggestion to address a foul server? Quite often the umpire will be from the same team as the offender.

Chris H

This comes up time and time again in local leagues, with "top players" being shouted at by anyone that takes it on themselves to do so..........ie serving illegally when in actual fact they have no comprehension of what is legal and what isn't!

The umpire as said will be from the same team and about as unbiased as a frenchman in an onion growing contest, having said that i dont mean every umpire is biased.

The older players i agree sometimes get slightly huffed when younger players mention the serve as the un-written rule seems to be we have done this for x amount of years so its fine.................sadly we cant rock the boat as the influx of younger talent is somewat flowing slowy if not at all in some leagues, ours im pleased to say is improving nicely with younger players coming through.

[Jase]

I must admit I have witnessed the foul serve first hand recently by a member of my team, he serves out of the hand consistently. He was pulled on it in our last match by the umpire, one of there team.
This is what the umpire said " Fault, you are not throwing the ball six inches upwards, you should know how to serve by now, you are playing in the premier league you know!!"
My mate then commented on what a fun night this was going to be!! It was dire, both teams hardly spoke, fortunately we woooooped them 10-0.
My point really is this, I agree that foul serves should be pulled but there is a right way of doing it. Why not have a word with the offending player first before calling them?? This would have I am sure made for a much more pleasant evening!!!

[Annie]

I must admit I have witnessed the foul serve first hand recently by a member of my team, he serves out of the hand consistently. He was pulled on it in our last match by the umpire, one of there team.
This is what the umpire said " Fault, you are not throwing the ball six inches upwards, you should know how to serve by now, you are playing in the premier league you know!!"
My mate then commented on what a fun night this was going to be!! It was dire, both teams hardly spoke, fortunately we woooooped them 10-0.
My point really is this, I agree that foul serves should be pulled but there is a right way of doing it. Why not have a word with the offending player first before calling them?? This would have I am sure made for a much more pleasant evening!!!

Actually my opinion is if the player fouled then the umpire was right to call it to be fair to the other player. The problem seems to be when umpires are inconsistent in adhering to the rules. As for him embellishing on the call with his further comments well that probably deserves a :redcard:

[Chico]

Actually my opinion is if the player fouled then the umpire was right to call it to be fair to the other player. The problem seems to be when umpires are inconsistent in adhering to the rules. As for him embellishing on the call with his further comments well that probably deserves a :redcard:
I have also had this problem recently where I had to ask my opponent to throw the ball up as it was straight from the hand.This did not go down to well with him and he reacted with I quote : I have been serving like this for the last 30yrs and I am not going to change now.The umpire warned him again and he just said to deduct points and kept the same serve.I asked for the points not to be deducted as this would create more tension but it spoiled a good evening.

[Annie]

Rules are rules I'm afraid but what I do want to know is why the change to throwing the ball up 6 inches? I can't see the purpose in it. In fact serves from my hand are better and faster, or perhaps that's the idea, to make it more difficult to pull off a good serve?

I don't know! Maybe the next thing will be we have to start playing with one hand behind our backs! :resent:

[FantasyCheeseBasin]

the one serve i constantly rely on to get me out of trouble is the very fast and low float to the backhand,its difficult to attack and most of the time in local league players net it. :bag:

[JKC]

I can do a number of different spin serves

Uo4NNins9_w&hl=en&fs=1

But tend to base my game almost entirely around the heavy chop and the float. I should really try to use the others more in games, but I either don't feel the need to or don't feel confident enough to depending on the standard of opponent.

[Leeston]

I can do a number of different spin serves

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=Uo4NNins9_w

But tend to base my game almost entirely around the heavy chop and the float. I should really try to use the others more in games, but I either don't feel the need to or don't feel confident enough to depending on the standard of opponent.

Hey - I like that serve ! Lots of variation of spin ! The great thing here also is that the second bounce is on the table, making it a litte more tricking to attack.

[Jase]

Rules are rules I'm afraid but what I do want to know is why the change to throwing the ball up 6 inches? I can't see the purpose in it. In fact serves from my hand are better and faster, or perhaps that's the idea, to make it more difficult to pull off a good serve?

I don't know! Maybe the next thing will be we have to start playing with one hand behind our backs! :resent:
I think the reason they have tried to stop teh serve out of the hand is that players used to impart spin from the hand, this could give an unfair advantage and be almost impossible to read.
The more I think about it the more it seems impossible to serve legally:thtease:
Cant serve from the hand, cant shield the ball with your free hand, cant make funny faces at your opponent, what can ya do!!!!!! There is a song there somewhere!!!:slider_hi5:

[Annie]

I think the reason they have tried to stop teh serve out of the hand is that players used to impart spin from the hand, this could give an unfair advantage and be almost impossible to read.
The more I think about it the more it seems impossible to serve legally:thtease:
Cant serve from the hand, cant shield the ball with your free hand, cant make funny faces at your opponent, what can ya do!!!!!! There is a song there somewhere!!!:slider_hi5:

You can break wind! There's no rule against that yet.:fart:

[JKC]

Just before changing ends is the best time, I find.

[JKC]

Hey - I like that serve ! Lots of variation of spin ! The great thing here also is that the second bounce is on the table, making it a litte more tricking to attack.

If you like, I can post the other 6 hours of rejected footage.

[Annie]

I can do a number of different spin serves

Uo4NNins9_w&hl=en&fs=1

But tend to base my game almost entirely around the heavy chop and the float. I should really try to use the others more in games, but I either don't feel the need to or don't feel confident enough to depending on the standard of opponent.

I wouldn't play against ya! :resent:

[JKC]

I'm sure you would Annie, you just wouldn't put any money on it yet.

[Annie]

I'm sure you would Annie, you just wouldn't put any money on it yet.

As DaveR would say............Wot money! http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/hungarianwonderwoman/Emotions/boy.gif



Just save the last dance for me JKC, I'd beat you at that http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/hungarianwonderwoman/Emotions/dance.gif

[JKC]

3 husbands you say and you haven't got any money stashed away?

Don't think you would have much competition on the dancefloor from me - would give it a go after a few pints though.

[Annie]

3 husbands you say and you haven't got any money stashed away?

Don't think you would have much competition on the dancefloor from me - would give it a go after a few pints though.

I can just see you know......................


Way Hey Annie! http://i32.photobucket.com/albums/d29/hungarianwonderwoman/Emotions/mandance.gif

[Mr Wilko]

bet you are a disco deva after a few pints JKC...........................?:thtease:

[Annie]

bet you are a disco deva after a few pints JKC...........................?:thtease:

I see you more of a Moonwalker! :danceman:

[Mr Wilko]

just a smooth criminal!!!!!!!! ha ha ha :woho::woho:

[Mr Wilko]

probabley better footwork after a few pints!!!!!!! ha ha ha :thtease:

[Annie]

I hear DaveR only has one dance move after a few bevies......

:faint:

[Mr Wilko]

is that after he has bought a few beers??? if so he must of learnt this technique from Eddie Smith (an excuse not to buy anymore) :rocker::rocker::rocker:

[Annie]

People like DaveR give the Scottish a good name! :resent:

[DaveR]

looooooooooooool hey me and Eddie are very good at it !

[Mr Wilko]

a good name .................................................. ........ :fcb::fcb::fcb:

mines a Fosters Extra Cold DaveR and some pork scratchings!!! LOL